Polyamory, Jealousy & Love – Juno’s Personal Story (Podcast)

Polyamory and open relating is really New for a lot of people it touches so Many wounds and programming of like People really believe like people have Seen their parents uh maybe go through a Divorce because of cheating and or have Witnessed infidelity growing up I mean Like there's a lot of deep pain Associated with Being in a relationship and having sex With another person Hello friend and welcome to the sex Upgraded podcast a podcast podcast for Men all about sex where we'll combine Real authentic and down-to-earth Conversations about sex life and Relationships with some pretty wild Personal stories and practical how-to Episodes as well with guest experts from Around the world to help you have the Most amazing sex life you can possibly Have my name is Taylor and I'll be your Host on this journey and it's my goal With each episode to give you practical Actionable things you can start doing Today to improve your sex life and your Entire life because a thriving sex life Will help you thrive in all areas of Your life so let's begin today's episode By starting with a deep breath in Through the nose into the belly together Exhaling with an audible sigh Ah And let's get in to today's episode

[Music] So I recently asked a question on my Personal Facebook account to the world And said hey my podcast has reached 150 Plus countries and there's been Thousands and thousands of people Listening and I'd love to do some more In-person interviews with people in Asheville does anybody have an Interesting topic about sex or Relationship that they thought they Could bring to the table and I'm here Today with Juno Juno thank you for being Here yeah and Juno messaged me and said Hey Let's talk about polyamory And I'm really excited for this Conversation because Juno to my Knowledge you are not a coach you're not An educator you're not somebody who's Trying to sell any particular idea but You're somebody who's actually living This lifestyle yeah and you're just Excited to talk about it it's all right That's right yeah Yeah at this moment I'm not doing Anything related to that in terms of my Career Yeah so something I I want to share About and Um I've thought about like Making a video at times I don't really Have a personal YouTube so and haven't Really had the motivation to start

Something like that on a big scale so it Hasn't come about but I'm really glad to Be here to yeah share on your platform So yeah thank you for being here and I Think maybe this is either your first or One of your first podcast interviews Ever yeah I think it's officially my Second or I'm sorry my third yeah yeah I've done two others throughout my life But it's been a really long time awesome Well thank you yeah for showing up Sometimes it can feel a little awkward To sit and talk into a microphone Especially when there's cameras around But thanks for doing that a number of People have told me since I said started Telling my friend group that we're doing An interview yeah I said like oh Juno is A great person to talk to about uh yeah She's got a lot of good things to say And so that's good to hear I'm excited And intrigued to see where we go with This conversation me too but first I'll start with a question What is polyamory oh my gosh All right what a big question yeah a big Question or can you just share a little Bit about your personal relationship Situation Great Um Well Um which one should I do let's start With since this is actually less of a

Here's how to do this thing it's more Like a personal conversation yeah yeah What is your relationship do you have Multiple partners are you dating one Person are you not are you single like What's happening right now cool Um yeah I think I think I kind of prefer Saying that I'm non-monogamous as a As a statement Um As opposed to saying polyamorous Although I identify with that word and I I feel like I am polyamorous too so I'm Not not poly but I think that Um Yeah sometimes the the labels people Attach a lot of things to these Concepts And or project a lot of things onto them And so and it's really so individual Like what it means to each person so Um I hesitate to say that I'm I'm open Or Polly even though I am but I'll just Start with saying I'm non-monogamous so Um I practice a non-monogamous lifestyle And I first started exploring that when I Was 19 actually and I was in a A polyamorous relationship Um with two other people And uh then I was in multiple monogamous Relationships throughout my 20s that was Like my my intro to non-monogamy and Um I read a lot of books at that time And like it really opened my mind and it

Was it's been a part of my Um inner exploration for a long time but About five years ago after I ended or a Monogamous relationship ended I decided I was going to really commit to that as A lifestyle and then it resonated the Most for me and I wasn't always sure Like what what version of non-monogamy I Wanted Um and I'm I'm really still discovering That and I feel like it's an ongoing Discovery and it's not something we have To like Stamp on and say I am this version of That But I feel pretty confident and clear That non some version of non-monogamy is What resonates for me And so yeah I've been doing that for About five years and or maybe close to Six at this point and that started as an Individual Choice when I was not in a Partnership so that was really Empowering for me to like enter into the Dating world with that as a kind of self Chosen Um Yeah relationship orientation absolutely Rather than something that kind of came About suddenly You're in a relationship and you're like Oh I think I'm actually polyamorous yeah Oh [ __ ] yeah So yeah and currently

Um I uh yeah I'm in a relationship I'm in I've been in a partnership with my Uh primary partner or I currently have One primary partner we're open to having Other primary Partners but currently I Have one and we've been together for Almost three years and we live together Um I've had other partners most of them Have been like more short-term I've had Yeah like three months and then We've had other lovers and those sorts Of things so currently I don't have like Multiple Um what I would consider more primary or Like deep rooted Partnerships but I'm Actively dating Um and so is my partner nice you're open To it Deeper relationships versus just like Flings and that sort of thing correct Yeah got it cool thank you yeah so That's the context That's the context and I'm curious Well so we had a conversation before This conversation just to talk about Talking talk about what we're going to Talk about and one of the things that You say that you said in that Conversation that you get asked a lot is Why polyamory yeah I'm curious so after Those relationships five or six years Ago what inspired the

The decision to try something different Mm-hmm Um after the the monogamous Relationships that I was in yeah what Inspired this journey into doing Something that most of society says is Weird Yeah I think that early relationship that I Spoke about that early Polyamorous relationship that I was in And when I started reading those books It made a lot of sense to me on a on a Deep level it struck something in me Like that just made sense and I um I Never had really thought about like it's Just assumed in our culture that you get Married and then you just you know you Stay with that one person or you're only With one person at a time like monogamy Is kind of implied it feels like in in Most cultures in our culture So it was always just an implied assumed Behavior Um that I had never really even given Been given the opportunity to question So when that situation arose and I was Happened to be with people who were all Really curious and open-minded and this Was at a time when like nowadays Paulie Is kind of trending like it was not a Thing back then and people were like What are you talking about this is crazy This is weird

Or they just were like yeah what's wrong With you like why aren't you able to Have a normal relationship would they Ask you things like that I feel like People just avoided it like it was an Uncomfortable thing that I was doing and So I remember friendships at the time People just thinking it was strange and Not maybe not wanting to be friends with Me anymore or acting really awkward if I Would bring it up so I kind of just Didn't talk about it that much yeah Um but it struck me on just like a Philosophical level like when I really Thought about what makes sense for me And what what I really if I really had The choice what I would like Um And So that always kind of stuck but then I think the The the the Societal resistance comes into play the Programming my own fears and jealousies And then meeting people who really Weren't open to it too so I would bring It up early on I would be like What do you think about open Relationships what do you think about a Monogamy I mean on friendships or in Dates or all of the above Um I'm speaking specifically about the Relationships I got into like the longer Term monogamous I was into longer term

Monogamous relationships and in both of Those it was a part of the conversation At different points or I would bring it Up and both of them were not open to it And I don't remember date I remember Dating at times and people being not Being open to it also Um so it was a big change for me when it Came to Asheville and there's a lot more People practicing some version of Non-monogamy and I think that's really Expanding in the world in general yeah But definitely here in Asheville there's A lot more Movement in that area for sure I mean Over the past few years I've seen front Page stories on the mainstream news Networks about non-monogamy and Polyamory and studies TV shows about it I was featured on an old documentary With Kenya the person who we were Talking earlier today who was in a Previous podcast episode about how to Divorce proof your marriage myself and a Poly V to other people that we're in Relationship with were featured in the Documentary years ago I think maybe in a Similar time when you first started Doing this yeah and people were like What the [ __ ] What's wrong with these people they're Satanists they're Sinners they're bad Something's wrong with them they Probably have a mental disorder like all

This stuff you know right you just Haven't found the right person yet if You say that a lot yeah when you totally And and so it's interesting to see oh Now it's now it's really starting to be Talked about you know and there's Research that has come out in the past Decade too that I did some research Before this interview just to come up With some data points and yeah there's Research out there that shows people in Non-monogamous relationships are as Happy if not actually more happy than People in monogamous relationships yeah Which is really interesting to me and Then looking at the different marriage Statistics I'm just going to read off a Couple here please 40 to 50 percent of generally fifty Percent of first marriages fail or end In divorce you could say 65 percent of Second marriages end in divorce and 70 More than 70 of any marriage beyond that Ends in divorce wow and then another Interesting thing about that is let's See where is it Roughly half of people say they feel Fulfilled in their marriage and so That's half Of the half that didn't get divorced so We're looking at you know maybe a 25 Percent rate of people who are actually Happy in their monogamous marriages Right and and then

I looked up what's the biggest cause of Divorce and there's some research about This too and in some studies and one Meta-analysis I found they said 60 of The people who got a divorce cited Infidelity as the reason for getting Divorced and I'm like what if you could Just do that as part of your Relationship and it was okay would you Need to get a divorce like maybe not Maybe not maybe not so all that stuff is It's head scratchy to me very much so Yes yeah and there's there's a list just Five five more bullet points and people Say what college is marriage Dissatisfaction there's a lack of Spontaneity a lack of romance a terrible Sex life uh lack of time to give each Other attention lack of time to talk Number four and number five are kind of Like yeah that makes sense but the first Three I think could be inspired by some Form of non-monogamy as well say the First three one more time lack of Spontaneity spontaneity lack of romance Right and then a terrible sex life right So those are things that could Potentially be impacted by opening up Their relationship in some way and there Are actually some people out there who Feel like an increase in their sexual Appetite if they connect with somebody Else and then bring that back to their You could call it a primary relationship

Or other relationship that's that's been My experience personally Yeah I think it increases all of those Things not just Uh personally or with your new Relationships but in whatever Relationships are also existing yeah Yeah the new energy or the refreshing Energy or the unique experience Refreshes everything it also refreshes The other relationships if you're able To really integrate that and have it all Feel connected and let it change you and Then let that change inspire Yeah your existing relationship so it's All talked about it's all consensual Consensual nothing under the table Happening it's it's celebrated yeah yeah So yeah the why question why polyamory I Think all of those things are things I Researched at one point or another or Maybe read in books and made sense to me When I thought about wanting to have Really long-term relationships that are Fulfilling you know not just a Relationship that is secure and will Meet my needs for some kind of safety in The world although that's great too yeah Um but something that's like truly Fulfilling and inspiring to me I Yeah I felt like non-monogamy would Solve a lot of those problems or Um be a pathway that would be more

Fulfilling yeah that makes a lot of Sense I personally resonate with that as Well too and if you're listening right Now and you are monogamous I do want to Say it's not my intention to try to Convince you to be non-monogamous my Intention and desire in this Conversation is just to talk about Another possibility and why somebody Might want to go down this other path Because there are not as many resources Out there for this kind of thing like We're not living in a societal context That says here's how to be Non-monogamous you know pretty much Everything about Society is like Monogamy monogamy and the monogamy and It's slowly starting to open up a little Bit right now yes yeah I I Echo that and I totally agree and I personally don't Have anything Um Against monogamy or I don't think that Monogamy is is inherently a poor choice Or inherently leads to any of those Issues either I think people can be Fulfilled and be monogamous And I've seen that too so it's really Just yeah I think it's opening up just The scope of what's possible and that You have options and Your relationship can really be designed Any way that that you want and I think That's for me the message that I

Resonate with the most more so than Our am I monogamous am I poly am I it's Like it's more like open in the sense of You're you're open to design a Relationship based on your unique Situation and needs and preferences in Your own creative capacity and Um you can create your own rules in a Relationship so Yeah and and maybe that that looks like Monogamy to traditional culture but it Could have some important edits that you Might carry over from looking into Non-monogamous Lifestyles totally and Potentially the exploration of Non-monogamy might help you have a more Fulfilled monogamous relationship like In my experience so I'm in a three-year Relationship right now and we have been Mostly monogamous intentionally for the First couple years of our relationship We both had come from different Polyamorous Styles beforehand and we Decided we really want a couple years of Building a solid foundation and and work On some important things in our life Before we start to expend some of the Energy that it might take to be open Right and that was really nice because We built a really solid foundation in Our relationship and just now we're Starting to talk about oh what are some Different things we can explore and We're slowly starting to wade back into

Those Waters and it's from a from a more Intentional place I think than oh we Read a couple books about polyamory Let's try it which we did in the past Too yeah we both did individually in Different relationships and ended Interestingly You know but I think that's a necessary Part of the journey as well for many People yes yeah there's a lot of I don't want to say failures but hiccups Along the way Yeah one thing so I do want to talk About we're going to talk about jealousy And compersion and and probably [ __ ] Like when polyamory goes wrong and why a Lot of the people have bad names or bad Feelings about polyamory yeah and you Mentioned the words wanted people to Know what's possible earlier and I think It's interesting to be Sitting here with you right now one of The one of the meta reasons is because A lot of people when they hear guys talk About polyamory they think oh the guy Just wants to [ __ ] a whole lot of women You know right and like here I am with a Woman who's saying actually this is a Lifestyle that feels really good and Natural for me yes it's probably it Doesn't sound to me like you're trying To go out and [ __ ] as many people as you Can and if you were that wouldn't Necessarily be wrong but there's this is

A story a lot of people have about Polyamory you know especially for guys Versus that it's actually there's a Desire to have meaningful connection With other people too Yes thank you for speaking to that I Think that is a common conception that People have Um and It there's yeah there's a stereotype About that and that that might be true In a lot of cases Um But but yeah that is not true in my case And in a lot of cases and I think that That assumption kind of can keep people From looking deeper at it um yeah So Yeah Um Yeah I get that a lot I get if people Hear that I'm open or non-monogamous I Get people kind of asking is that what He wanted like kind of it with this Sympathetic like are you okay you know Were you pressured into this and Um I've had people really I feel almost disbelieve me like not Believe me when I'm tell them no Actually I feel this is really natural for me and I came into this relationship with this Preference in a lot of ways I was more Insistent about it even then

My partner when we first started and Um Yeah that's definitely the image that We're given in media and in movies is That men want to sleep around and men Tend to cheat on their wives and Partners and women are more Um Monogamous and committed and you know Devoted and loyal So that's an interesting thing to unpack Which is statistically it's actually Much more even Right more balanced than they people Make it seem and I'm not trying to say That there aren't guys out there who Abuse the word polyamory and try to [ __ ] As many people as they can without Without good communication like that's Definitely happening we're just showing In women yeah men and women yeah it can Definitely be a guise for kind of Sex addiction or a way to maybe Normalize something that might on a Deeper level be kind of a imbalance or Or a trauma Way of relating Um trauma-based way of relating Um Or kind of a way to like Avoid looking at more avoidant Patterns or other relationship issues Like ah I'll just be Polly and kind of Hop around yeah and never have to do a

Relationship yeah and never really go Deep yeah and have to look at stuff so Yeah I think people have had a lot of Experiences like that and it's important To Understand that that does happen and it Can happen but that's not the case in All non-monogamous configurations and Hopefully we're moving in a direction Culturally where people can have that in A way that's like healthy and Sustainable that's what I'm trying to do Anyway in my relationship yeah thank you For helping to pave the way this Conversation when we talked beforehand You used the word polyfuckery and we're Living in Asheville and I think you said Something to the effect of well there's A lot of polyfuckery around here a lot Of people have had a lot of really bad Experiences with polyamory and I I think It's useful to create the distinction Between like that's not polyamory period That's a certain subset of people acting In a certain way creating certain Results and there's another way to do it But I wonder if there's anything else You want to say about the polyfuckery Piece like why why do you think it gets A bad name polyamory Hmm Hear it a lot from women that I speak in Particular that I talked to around town Who maybe have had negative experiences

With poly or Um yeah they'll speak about it in kind Of this negative light Um And And I guess it's come up with some guys Too who have dated more poly women in in A similar way Um where it feels like The person is very detached and really Not providing a lot of like grounded Presence and then There can kind of be like using the idea Of polyamory as an excuse for every Behavior Thing or every conflict or like well I'm I'm Paulie so you really can't Put these expectations on me or uh So I think a lot of it is a lack of Maybe clear communication and not Clearly communicating what people are Available for when they say that they're Poly Um And and that goes on both ends I think Too like people Have like we said you asked what is Polyamory I'm like well that could mean So many things to so many different People so what one person considers Paulie is going to be totally different What their vision is for what Polly is And that's where I think having like a Deeper more kind of grounded

Conversation just I mean I think for Relationships in general When you're starting to date but also Especially maybe in polyamory to get Really clear on like well what is your Vision for that what does that look like For you Um I actually when I first started more Dating more seriously in poly I Downloaded a Worksheet open relationship worksheet That I got on one of the programs I took I did like a joined a group and I've Done some yeah study I mean that's Another thing it's like we need to study Because we didn't really get that Information and get those examples like You said and so people just kind of fall Into it without realizing how complex And hard it can be so I think that's one Of the problems but um Sounds like Uh Hey communication up front is super Super important and this is probably a Reason a lot of people end up having Train wrecks and and they'll use oh I'm Holly so therefore my emotional Availability doesn't matter or like I Don't need to help support you in this Way or like you can't count on me for X Y and Z or it makes all my other Behaviors excusable yes something like That so there's Well that's an addition to communication

There's like a leveling up that needs to Happen in terms of just relational Abilities yeah I would say but then on Both sides and all sides of the spectrum Like I think we all need to be talking More in the beginning of relationships Like short term or long term about what Is it that we're actually doing here What do we actually want and then from That Clarity up front that can help Avoid a lot of the potential pitfalls Afterwards yeah right if we're really Clear on what we want then Maybe maybe it's okay if somebody's not So emotionally available for a week After a date if we know that up front Like that's much better than having sex With somebody and then thinking they're Going to be available but they're Actually not and you never talked about It yeah Yeah I I Hesitate to to imagine that there are Many people that are good with that that Are actually who are like basically Healthy or secure that are okay with no Emotional connection after a sexual Relationship but maybe I'm not saying It's not but yeah at least it could be Communicated and that would be a step And then it's really on them Um totally I like the the conversation Format idea on my website there is a Guide I call it the better sex

Conversation but it also just applies to Relationship building if you're going on A date so I'll link to that in the show Notes for anybody who's curious near the Top if you want an idea of a Conversation format to follow yeah I Think it's super useful and I can Include the worksheet too I can send it To you so people can check that out Um I did it with my partner and in the Beginning of a relationship and it Details a lot of specific questions About open relationships like how do you Feel about being intimate with another Partner in front of your partners or Would you rather to be more neutral or Friendly those kinds of specifics it's Like wow if you knew that ahead of time How much heartache and frustration and Pain could that prevent and knowing how We each relate differently so just one More thing I want to say about the Polyfuckery aspect is like If we're kind of going to probably like Wow this is awesome we can all just you Know have sex with whoever we want and It's so open and free Um yeah without really getting really Clear and specific and realizing like This is a really delicate territory like Relationships are delicate territory and Polyamory and open relating is really New for a lot of people it touches so Many wounds and programming of like

People really believe like people have Seen their parents uh maybe go through a Divorce because of cheating and or have Witnessed infidelity growing up I mean Like there's a lot of deep pain Associated with Being in a relationship and having sex With another person totally and even if It's all out on the table and we all Agree it's okay those things those Wounds those unconscious patterns can Get triggered and so This is like deep stuff to be dealing With and I think that What I observed when I when I think of That word or when I hear people speak of Poly in a way that's like wow that was a Terrible experience Is there's this kind of Free flowing like liberated person or Ideal idealization of it Um but then When the reality hits the the tools Aren't there yeah to deal with really What gets brought up and then if people Are also kind of avoidant or don't have Relationship skills like conflict Resolution skills and whatnot and then They just dip or things rupture during Those uh Polyamorous excursions then things can Feel really painful and people can feel Really wounded or traumatized by the Experience and they can feel like wow

That person just wanted to Sleep with me and then when it got hard They're just gone and they say well I'm Paul ESO So it's fine it's fine yeah So I'm really hearing there's A need for a deeper understanding and Respect and even reverence for the Reality of what relationship is even Short-term relationships absolutely yeah I think I think that's something that Is crucially crucially important that We're not doing like when I say we I Mean like as a society generally Speaking like we're not focusing on that And it's so easy we can get distracted By 10 million things a day like why Would we ever pay attention to the Reality of the depth of the potential of Relationship but right does anybody Who's even been monogamous in a Relationship for longer than a year Knows like it's not all sunshine and Roses all the time and eventually [ __ ] Comes up and then when you add multiple Other people in there That potential increases Yes For sure that doesn't mean it's not Worth doing though I agree I think that there are a lot of Thing hard things that are worth doing And polyamory or open relating is one of Those things for me yeah yeah so do you

Never get jealous anymore are you never Beyond jealousy no I'm kidding Um Yeah jealousy I think that what actually Comes up for me more than jealousy Um and I think it's what people mean Often when they say jealousy is is fear Fear and insecurity so fear of losing The relationship Um or insecurity about my value or worth In the relationship I equate jealousy More to a feeling of like Uh here's a little cute example so Um My partner went to Burning Man last year I didn't go with him And he had some Sweet Connections there And he met someone he was telling me About it And she he said yeah she taught me how To salsa dance And I was like oh I got a little jealous Because I really felt like he would hadn't been Open to partner dancing stuff with me And so I was jealous of that person's Influence or ability to get him to Partner dance with her when he hadn't Been open to that with me Um so the jealousy is pointing to a Desire for connection that you have plus Some sadness potentially around that not Getting met maybe plus a thought that he Should do that with you sure exactly

Maybe maybe yeah all those things but I Think I I share that I'll usually share That and then we he can either say well I would love to do that with you like Let's do that Um or just listening compassionately and Sometimes I'll just say like I don't I Don't need you to do that with me I just Recognized that that came up and like Maybe it's okay that this person for Whatever reason and the way they Approached it maybe the way they said it You know spark something or inspired him In a way that I hadn't and to just Celebrate that actually and be like cool Like that was brought out in You by that Person yeah Um So Jealousy in that way I would say Is pretty minimal for me at this point Um Was it always minimal did it take some Work to get there Oh no no and I would say it was always Way more intense than a monogamous Relationship for me Um and this was part of part of the Reasons that I was like really curious To experiment with open relating I thought this I have the suspicion that Jealousy will be easier for me and it And in a weird way it is so Um in an open relationship in an open

Relationship yeah because in a Monogamous relationship if somebody Would kind of show up in the scene I Would sense there was chemistry between Them and my partner I would sense my Partner feeling a draw towards that Person Um There was this knowing and understanding That if they pursued that and they Really wanted to go in that direction That that meant our relationship was Over Um Um and so I would compare you know Compare myself and worry if they have More things than I do because it's a Competition there's only one person That's gonna fill that role in a Monogamous relationship so there's no Room I can't we can't just expand or Change forms I mean we could have but Um in that agreement structure of Monogamy Um I remember when that feeling would Come up it feeling so intense Um So for me just the knowing that It doesn't Change my relationship it doesn't have To End it or really and through time and Experience realizing it it doesn't Really it doesn't change my relationship

Um if anything it it grows it and Improves it so you now have an embodied Understanding that when your partner Dates or has sex with other people it Doesn't actually damage your Relationship with him right but Sometimes it actually improves it and Makes it stronger yeah And that's my that's been my experience And I know that's not everyone's Experience some people have opened up And They've found that yeah it destroyed the Existing relationship or that Relationship ended at that point Um or it caught it brought up issues That were already there And that kind of goes down to like okay Well What is the dynamic between you and your Partner that you're being open with Um and Like if there's security or there's like A lot of deep trust and deep connection And fulfillment Then those feelings just don't arise as Much because you know what you have yeah Yeah and there's a safety in that and You're you feel confident with with what You have so Yeah so for me I feel like Having witnessed it and experienced it And felt like our relationship's gone Deeper and gotten better

Yeah and do you feel like I know Obviously you can't speak for him really But do you feel like there's been a Similar shared experience at least Relationally in your relationship with Him yeah definitely Um yeah it was a lot there were a lot More emotions that came up in the Beginning at like the first year Um We like really wrote some waves of Anxiety and um he had a lot of anxiety To work through at times And yeah at this point it's like it's Very very minimal and Not even there sometimes so yeah seems To just get easier and easier yeah for Us that's awesome yeah hey nice work Yeah yeah so that's like that's a good Good news I think if you're like really Working on your relationship or working On yourself and Doing all that stuff like it can just it Does get easier and I think it is like a Skill that you build and a muscle That you build there's there's a whole Like skill set I feel like Um related to polyamory that you just Can't learn anywhere else other than Doing it just doing it yeah yeah I'm Studying it you have to build those Muscles it's like if you go to the gym For the first time and you've never Worked out your back or your arms or

Whatever it's going to be probably Pretty hard at first and you might get Sored it might hurt and you might need To take a break and then eventually with Some more intentionality it can become Easier and then you can actually find Joy in the process possibly if that's Something you even want to do you know Yeah and I hear I've heard a lot of People say oh polyamory destroyed their Relationship or polyamory ruined their Relationship or probably this probably That whatever My theory on that is generally that no Polyamory or openness actually just Catalyzed the discovery of other things That were not working well in their Relationship because that's that seems To be an effect of opening a Relationship is that it exposes your Wounds and your triggers to more Possibilities of being activated yeah And and Then [ __ ] comes up yes it's easy to say Oh it's because we're poly but maybe It's because if you're in a monogamous Relationship that can sometimes be a Shelter from an escape mechanism from Really actually facing some of the Deeper attachment wounds or insecurities That might exist within yeah absolutely Yes I agree yeah it's you said it yeah So everybody go out and try to have five Partners tomorrow and just

Let the [ __ ] hit the fan and dive dive In yeah I mean That's a joke yeah just in case anyone Actually thinks that was a serious Statement it's a joke no I like what you Said about Um Your relationship and you know you Starting and building a strong Foundation and then kind of moving into It with more slowness Obviously I started my we started our Relationship open but there were times When we we would Pace in certain ways You know in the in the internal of our Relationship and Um There's different ways to kind of pace The onslaught of new emotions and um You know having certain boundaries in in Different ways and so that you have Enough spaciousness and regulation Nervous system regulation to be able to Keep your relationship functioning and Healthy and my partners really good About communicating that with me Um and I think I'm good about Communicating that with him too when We're feeling a sense of overwhelm and We try not to put limits on the other Person and how they express their Relationships but more about like I'm needing a certain amount of space Around processing right now you know

Like I need to take a week break around Like talking about this particular issue Or spatial boundaries like There was a period where he was like I Just need like a month or two where you Don't have a date in the house that we Share like can you just can we do it or When I'm not home or there was a feeling Of like an invasion of space that he was Working through but he was not trying to Hold on to that forever he was just like My nervous system needs a break Um And so yeah I think there are lots of Little ways to kind of Slow things down or Um titrate and or you know create enough Space and ease that You can get through it because there are Some hard hard parts so yeah I think Polyamory destroys a relationship or Like Opening can put a lot of pressure on a Relationship yeah because like you said It's going to open up any existing Issues it's going to bring up all a Whole new set of problems you've never Had to deal with before Um And yeah it takes time to like regulate And figure out how to do that in a way That's sustainable and fun and like Nourishing and for sure and just because Somebody experiences emotions or anger

Or frustration or sadness doesn't mean That it's not going well no we're going The direction that it needs to go yeah Thank you for saying that yeah that's a Big one that I still like wrestle with a Little bit internally yeah and I'm Curious to talk about it a little bit Because there's the Some people and I've fallen into this Have the thought of like oh well if I'm Sad or mad it means it's not good and it Should stop you know but I think in this Context There's maybe something else going on it Seemed like you wanted to say something Before I jumped in there is that Accurate I have a bunch of thoughts but yeah go For it if anyone's on top oh gosh what Was I just think let me grab let me Grasp the thought Um So Yeah I guess Um there's this piece around just Because somebody experiences challenging Emotions in the context of open relating Doesn't mean what's happening is Actually bad yes yes okay and I got I Picked up the thread that I had yeah and I think um That's true in any relationship but Definitely in a polyamorous Dynamic and I've had people in my life at times

Um if funny just little funny Interactions and I'm like this is funny The way people think where people assume Well you're Polly so like what do you Um I just didn't think that you got Jealous or that you had those feelings Or Um Yeah like if if I have jealousy if I Have a boundary issue with another woman Um you know if fear comes up that that I'm that there's something wrong or Um they're like surprised because I Think some people equate Poly to meaning you're somehow Um You somehow don't have all the normal Spectrum of human emotions that other People have and if you do then There's something wrong oh you can't do It or you really shouldn't see Polly Really doesn't work you know or it's Just a phase you'll get over it yeah Kind of Yeah I think it's really important to Speak to all that that Yeah and what what kind of emotions were You wanting to speak to that you feel Like let me ask this question say for Example in your relationship Either one of you does something with Somebody else and the other person Experiences an emotional response and Do you find that it's useful for you in

The context of your relationship to then Console or reassure each other about That activity or is it useful to kind of Diversify how you get those reassurance Needs met as well does that make sense Like say my girlfriend interacts with Another guy yeah and I feel sad or Jealous about it and I feel a little Salty when I interact with her like I could see an instance in which it Would be useful for her to give me Reassurance but I could also see a Situation where it would be useful for Me to not put that emotional labor on That scenario and like maybe get support Externally because it's all within the Realm of our agreements you know yes I Just I'm curious about being intentional With where we get support yeah this is The question I'm wondering if you if you Navigate that intentionally in some way Um I love that question Yeah I think both I definitely think Reassurance regular reassurance from the People that you're relating with in a Deep way is essential nourishment for The relationship genuine reassurance you Know not like placating but true like Expressions of your devotion or love or Desire for the other person Um Uh reminders Sometimes you just need your your

Partner to ground you and say like We're doing great I you know I think our Relationship's really good and you know What simple things like that Um Or you're beautiful or I think you're so Attractive or I love you whatever and Simple things that are genuine So it sounds almost like the the Challenging emotion or whatever it could Become a catalyst or an opportunity for Connection even and an opportunity for Growth yeah yeah and An appreciation yeah deeper appreciation So I would say yes getting reassurance From your partner giving to each other The reassurance frequently just as a Source of nourishment to the Relationship And also yes I think there comes a point Where if if that's not working and if That's not doing it and one of us is Like Anxiously seeking like there's this kind Of hungry ghost where you just can't get The satisfaction no matter how many Times they say Yes I really want to be with you still Or you know it my feelings haven't Changed but you the your nervous system Or your thoughts are just spot like you Can't get out of that yucky feeling That's when I feel like it is A time and it's always good to do this

Anyway but it's for sure a sign that I Feel that some other Um Nourishment needs to get provided Through through other resources and that Could be like a personal practice like Reconnecting with a personal practice Yoga or meditation or exercise or Something that's fulfilling but also Other relationships other connections Friendships Um And like Realizing that yeah getting getting Filled up in other ways and other Connections so there's some kind of like Gap that you're feeling in In your fulfillment and it's kind of on Us to go go find that so yeah Yeah to me that's a one of the beautiful Things about we'll call it non-monogamy Yeah instead of polyamory it's just your Opening thing called polyamory yeah Opening with the understanding that We've already talked about that probably Could mean 10 different things to five Different people you know but within the Context of non-monogamy you're really Creating a larger pool from which you Can draw from to get all your needs met You know in a traditional monogamy There's so many needs we try to get met From one person it's like sexual yes but Emotional uh intimate connection

Physical touch care nurturing uh Potentially like Business Partnership if You're buying a house together you know Financial support like sustenance There's so many different things and Pressures that can get put on one Relationship that It's I just I personally enjoy diversifying That oh my God and being intentional With that even if we're even if I'm Sexually monogamous like being you could Call it emotionally open I don't even Know if that's the right term because I Think we should all be more emotionally Open than we actually are but being able To get needs met from other people is Just a very Useful thing than to put 30 needs on one Person you know so much pressure it puts So much pressure so much unnecessary Pressure yeah and thank you for Mentioning that because I think one of The reasons I wanted to say non-monogamy Is because that just opens up so many More possibilities yeah because people Can be Sexually monogamous or sexually with one Person but then maybe they have cuddles Or kisses or they do things with their Partner they go to play parties or they Just have deep emotional connections With people of the opposite sex which in Traditional monogamy isn't really

Often is like really frowned upon and Not not even allowed yeah people like oh You got you went on a walk and you had a Talk with somebody of the opposite Gender you [ __ ] cheated you [ __ ] Like seriously yeah God forbid they're Attractive you know or single hoof That's definitely not allowed Um Yeah so yes there's I I think just Speaking to the Spectrum is is helpful And normalizing that there are so many Different options out there for this and Just use my own personal relationship as An example what we've done primarily for The past few years is that We we are we're open to you and able to And agree to if we're at a container Like a sex party Play Party sort of a Thing or a workshop that's about sex or Relationships or something we're open to Connecting with other people in those Spaces either individually or together And then we're open to like small group Scenarios with other people but we Haven't pursued For the most part in-depth one-on-one Connections with other people yeah my Partner has I haven't done that yet yeah And I think that's on the horizon uh but Just want to name there's There's a whole Spectrum in between the Word monogamy and polyamory and there's Like 50 000 possibilities

Yeah there's so many shades and you Exactly you can pick the shade that you Want at that time That works for you and try it out and Then move wherever you want on the scale Given how you're feeling how you're Growing what direction things are moving In how much time and energy you have Um How your sex drive is changing or Expanding or not so Yeah thanks for sharing that yeah that Other like alternative and an option Yeah and there are many lots of Alternatives yeah go ahead I had uh Dated someone at some point Um who was really more into being Polysexual so really wanted the freedom To Have really deep cuddles and you know Kisses and um Emotional and spiritual connections with People with other people but really Didn't want to be polysexual really Didn't want to have multiple sexual Partners they felt for them that was too Complex too much to navigate they really Preferred just having the one partner to Have the sexual relationship with and I Really respect that and I really feel Like it was a genuine Thing that felt right for that person at That time and I was really clear that I Wanted the sexual openness too and I

Think it was a really kind of mature Move that we were able to have that Clarity of conversation and not try to Change the other person and just be like Okay that's where you're at that's what You're available for and that's what you Want this is what I want Um and we weren't able to make it a line At that time there were other factors Involved but yeah Um It's been cool for me to really learn All these different Versions and I I feel a lot of openness In myself too to all of that yeah yeah I Like that and freedom also for myself to Change you know right now the style that I'm doing it really resonates with me it Really works for me and It's something that I see myself Continuing to do but I'm also really Open to it changing I'm open to getting To a place where I'm like oh I really Just want to have Um I don't know yeah any way that it that It could possibly look yeah uh I'm open Too because we change yeah we do I Remember Um I was at a gathering last fall and it Was late in the night and I think there Were maybe four or five of us couples Sitting around a fire and all of us were In some form of a non-monogamous

Configuration and we were sitting around Kind of lamenting the lack of word Choices or feeling like it's either Non-monogamy or monogamy or polyamory And none of them mean anything that we Can all agree on and somebody said you Know I really like to use the term Dynamic relating in our relationship and Everybody's head around the circle Nodded and eyes lit up when we were all Like whoa yeah that's cool I like Dynamic relating it's just it's Dynamic It's different it's potentially changing It can ebb and flow with things and That was a word that I really liked Because it's true there's so many Different options and spectrums and Things uh things different ways people Could do it yeah so we're closing up Here on the hour but I wanted to ask you One more question and this came up in The interview with Kenya from a few Episodes ago and she was talking about How She doesn't have boundaries with her Partners and it's it brought up some Interesting questions between my partner And I and I'm curious You mentioned something around this Earlier in this conversation but do you Both have boundaries around what each Other can or can't do and do you think That's a healthy and useful thing for Your relationship Style

Oh great question Um I would say on the most The simplest answer would be no we don't You don't have boundaries yeah Um You could classify some of our Agreements as a kind of boundary but we Don't have boundaries as to what we can And can't do with other people we have Agreements around communication like That will communicate before being Intimate with each other we'll we'll Keep each other in the loop like we Actually have a high level of Communication where Um we really want to know how things are Progressing and how things are Developing and also you know I've been In other countries and had a lever and Told him when I got home and it was Totally okay and it was something we had Previously discussed also that we really Preferred to have in-person Conversations and to not have like a Text conversation it's like hey you know And that that's not really a common Thing for me to just have something more Spontaneous like that but it did arise And We had already discussed that as Something [Music] That could happen

And it's an example of just that Anything can happen and there's not Really we don't have to like talk before We do something it's not like we have to Um Or there's only certain things that we Can do we're really free to do whatever We want and we just Communication is really the key and We're allowed to communicate if Something doesn't feel good or is Challenging like that's allowed but to To limit or control how the other person Is relating is not something that we've Chosen and yeah it's been hard at times I mean I think there have been moments Where I've been like yeah my anxiety is Coming up and I want that boundary you Know like let's talk about boundaries And And then we talk through it and we kind Of get back to a place where we feel Like We prefer that openness and freedom And usually when I'm wanting that for me It's because I'm anxious and I'm having Some fear come up Um insecurity Within Myself And once That settles and resolves and I've gone To a really nice regulated place with my Partner again and which these days Happens pretty quickly Um maybe a day at most or something uh Sometimes a little longer depending on

How intense something feels Uh I'll be back to when I'm in my ground And regulated place that's what Resonates for me the most and that's What I want you know I want that freedom So I want that for him too Yeah thanks for speaking to that it's It's something I'm curious about Um Like what is the what is the impact of Having that freedom oh on the Relationship yeah go forward we do have One boundary yeah I forgot to say we Have one very like boundary that we've Agreed to are you open to sharing it Here's that I'll share it Um we live in a like a little Community Um on some land with some tiny houses And there's eight of us living there and The boundary we agreed to when we first Started was to not Date or housemates And it was like an individual thing that We both wanted and then we just felt Like yeah this makes sense But we've also said If it really felt like something that Really was so aligned and important to Explore we'd be open to talking about it Yeah but there's there's just a general Agreement that we're not going to do That and that could change but that's That's been the case from the beginning And

It is one that we've kept yeah for a lot Of reasons totally even beyond the the Poly non-monogamy Dynamic it's like this Dangerous to have sex with your Housemates yes oh my gosh yeah yeah and Home is like a place of Safety and restoration and Relationships can be disruptive and Chaotic and exciting right but sometimes Even the excitement that new Relationship energy can be destabilizing For sure so for me coming home and Feeling grounded and feeling that peace Like I need that in order to have a Balanced life So yeah I was kind of like let's let's Not bring that into our living space If we can help it Phillips we all lived On like 300 acres and they were like 100 acres Over that might be a little different But we live on three acres so for sure It's a little too small yeah that makes Sense Yeah yeah that's Thanks for that The question around I don't know there's Just a lot of different moving pieces With that like the personal sovereignty To do whatever feels most life-giving And then how does that support the the Relationship that I have with this Person and how that all interplays and I'm not even sure how to talk about it

Exactly that's just something I'm I'm in Curiosity about I don't consider myself To be a polyamory even close to expert Or coach at all so I'm like in in Inquiry I want to ask some other people About this how do boundaries feel to you Taylor because you have some right yeah We do have some and I I'm in question around them I mean they Feel like they give me safety yeah you Know they feel like they give me safety And I think for where we are in our Relationship right now they're useful But I wonder Sometimes if they're also not a crutch In a sense of like it's keeping us from Potentially living the life that we Might actually really fully want to live That therefore might allow our Relationship to thrive even more that's Kind of the philosophical hypothetical But I don't know it's so hard to know Yeah Um yeah I think a boundary By definition It limits possibilities Which isn't a bad thing too and the Thing with not having any boundaries is There are infinite possibilities of what Could unfold or develop and that Requires A high degree of adaptability and I think it's like spiritual work to Continuously surrender and let go and

Trust what's unfolding Um And yeah it it can be it's just it's Very much a stretch it's a deep stretch For a lot of parts And I'm in question about it too Sometimes I mean I'm just I'll be honest Like I'm not like Yes this is the way to do it and Boundaries are Limiting and bad and you're just you're Going to transcend that level like I Think there could be a wisdom to that Too because sometimes Bringing things in a Little Closer Gives you freedom in certain ways yeah You have there's less possibilities of What could happen and so Um you don't necessarily have to Adapt to those potential possibilities Even mentally and there's like a mental Gymnastics to knowing that anything's Possible you're like well how would this Work or how would that work yeah so the Boundaries kind of give you uh a limit To what's possible and then you can Imagine and create within that so it's a It's a different approach and my Approach is a little bit more like let's Take the boundaries off and let what What is organically wants to arise Just come through and if we're doing the Work on our relationship and on Ourselves the most aligned thing is

Gonna continuously show up and if I'm Really present in what's alignment and In alignment in each moment I'm Gonna Know You know how to follow that and how to Attune to that and it's a little more Yeah living a bit more wide open You know For sure but I've enjoyed it so far There's a There's an excitement to it and a Creativity I think like that's possible Also Um it sounds like you also have a Commitment to your relationship with Your partner at some level possibly Different than a certain kind of Monogamous commitment but I wonder yeah I'm just curious like do You do you feel committed to your Partner yeah I do even though you even Even while you you both have these other Explorations yeah totally and it's cool To kind of test that sometimes it might Like see it come up and then be like Just continue to feel clear about it Yeah Um so yeah I do feel a commitment I feel That he has one too and Um I'm also of the mindset that if if you If a relationship is no longer like Really Resonant anymore that it's okay to

Shift Um but there's a commitment kind of in The relationship and there's a security For me and in our Dynamic of feeling Like no matter How it changes whether we're romantic Partners for the rest of our lives or Some other configuration like I'm Committed to the love between us and Yeah I feel like that friendship will Persevere that connection that deep love Will persevere regardless of how it Evolves So I feel committed to that into the Health and integrity of the connection And that's another beautiful thing about Being poly like or being open Um is like if some quality of the Dynamic shifts like I mean I So far so good you know so far things Have just continued to grow and but I've Heard relationships where they deeply Love the person but after 10 or 20 years There's the sexual chemistry has just Changed their bodies changed maybe they Had a kid and some something about the Pheromones Shift it you know hormones and I Remember first reading that being Horrified I was like oh God you know I Don't want that to happen or how could You continue to be in a relationship With someone if you're not sexual but

I've really Opened and released a lot of that to the Point where I'm like oh I get it and I Get how It's it's really about more than sex It's about real deep relationship and Love and so yeah with open relating if Something like that did shift at some Point It's like we can still be together in a Certain way we can still have a Partnership a deep relationship or a Deep love Um It doesn't have to look A specific way totally in order to be a Substantial partnership Beautiful yeah Thank you Juno so much for this Conversation it's been really Interesting to yeah hear your Perspective thank you for your openness And your rawness and vulnerability and Realness and sharing about this topic And thank you everybody for listening uh Usually at this point in the episode I Ask where people can find you if they Want to learn more but I'm guessing in This context that that's not really Applicable so do you have any closing Thoughts or last things you'd like to Say I guess people could email me if they Want if they have personal comments or

Questions And you have something they want to ask Me maybe I could share my email yeah and We can talk about that offline too to See if that really feels like a good Option yeah you're right maybe I Shouldn't put my email putting your Email publicly on the Internet is a Recipe for yeah it's interesting yeah Experiences true okay scratch that okay Great um to have any other comments I don't think so I mean probably like a Billion more on this topic but for now I'll just say yeah thank you for and Having me for sure it's been fun round One of the conversation complete for now Thank you so much for being here if you Liked this episode please shoot me a Message on Instagram or via my email Which is a contact form I don't put my Email publicly out to the world and let Me know and if you have any other Questions or a requests for future Episodes let me know as well and thank You again and I will see you all next Time

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